Pet peeves

Mar. 19th, 2009 04:00 am (UTC)

Writer's Market. They have a Deluxe version that includes online version for a year. I think it's like $40 if memory serves. Many of agents, publishers, magazines, publications, clubs, and information (example: on how to get published (i.e. how to write pitches, outlines, etc). You can get it at most major booksellers like Barnes and Noble or online. They come out every year.

wildrider

Mar. 19th, 2009 04:27 am (UTC)

I have a dozen of those, bought and paid for, and all I've done with them is spend money. I need one narrowed and refined for genre fiction, and Writer's Market is often way to "literature only" aimed.

Although roaming through the book store the other day, we couldn't figure out why THIS vampire novel was "literature" and those vampire novels were "genre."

Mar. 19th, 2009 05:02 am (UTC)

Kats, inside those books, there isn't anything else better. If you want something narrow, I think you can join the online part without buying the book and just use that. Go to writersmarket.com I think. Google it and I'm sure you'll find the right link with information.

I think I saw a science fiction-fantasy writers of america club, which to join was like $295 (I believe). Would you rather spend money for that? I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would join that club.

I don't honestly think the Market is "literature" only aimed, but it reflects the publishing industry. They aren't ignoring publishers. Sci-fi and fantasy is a niche market. Horror is niche. There are many other ones. Mainstream writing and "classic literature" or literature is not usually your fantasy book. Most publishers do not want anything to do with science fiction, fantasy or Horror. Writers like Dan Brown, John Irving, Maya Angelo... they are mainstream. THAT is what publishers want. And sadly, that's what a lot of readers want -- "Beach reads."

I can talk about literature and genre, but I need to get some sleep. :(

If you don't want to spend the money, Google "urban fantasy publishers" or whatever genre you want and they will come up with submission guidelines, but it is tedious and limiting. The book is the best thing per so many other authors.

Hopefully this post doesn't sound rude. I've re-written it three times. I'm still trying to get used to my new job and the hours. Again, I don't know everything. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

wildrider

Mar. 19th, 2009 11:26 pm (UTC)

You see, I know all that. That's why I'm trying to find specifically agents and publishers who HANDLE fantasy/horror and the subgenres thereof.

The last time I bought the Writer's Digest, I went through every page and marked everyone that I could possibly use and came up with about twenty-five. Twenty-five! If I'd ever been able to get something lucrative out of them I think I'd be less wary of it overall. I know it helps people, but it doesn't seem to be much help to ME (perhaps because I'm extraordinarily bad at getting out there and actually marketing myself).

I have considered using it to market myself as a reviewer, now; if I could get up the gumption to submit for actual payment. I think it would be good for that, because in addition to literature there's lots of good market possibilities for non-fiction.

Seriously, though; there was a series of vampire books in the literature/mainstream section, and around the corner in fantasy/horror were all the rest. And then there's "Twilight" and Chris Brown's books. Not to mention Gregory Maguire. I suppose the day I understand publishing is the day I get published.

Mar. 20th, 2009 12:58 am (UTC)

"Twilight" is YA. And YA is it's own genre and COMPLETELY open to everything, from fantasy to contemporary. I'm not 100% sure how it was originally marketed, but I BELIEVE it was set up as YA since the main character is 15 or so, years old (I spoke to my friend about that one).

Chris Brown... do you mean Dan Brown? Because I Googled that name and only musicans came up. Dan Brown is mainstream fiction... Da Vinci Code/Angels and Demons. He's pretty straight up mainstream bullshit hype crap and considered a "beach read."

Gregory Maguire... "Wicked"... I'm glad you picked him. And you should watch for the new book coming out by Michael Thomas Ford about Jane Austin turning into a Vampire by Random House. Not Genre fiction, but mainstream because they are taking classic books, classic ideas and reshaping them.

That's the difference.

You have to look at the basis of what they are writing. Is it an original idea? Who is backing them (i.e. publishers)? How many books have they written in the past (which REALLY makes a difference as well, because Stephen King as well as Dean Koontz cross into general/mainstream fiction now and some of their work is no longer "horror," "western," or whatever genre they were doing before (Dean used to have over 11 pen names at one point... or something close to it, when he first started).

Don't get bogged down by genre. It's good to know what you are writing and in some cases you have to know that for publishers and agents, but it's the publisher or the agent that will sometimes take what you write and push it into other genres. I wouldn't worry about this at all. I think this is just the smallest stepping stone.

25 sounds about right. Then there are about 11 agents, I think.

Marketing yourself is the MOST important thing. How else do you suppose all that shit writing ever got published. Kats, I say this in the most caring way... get OFF your ass and start developing your marketing arm. If you KNOW this is your weakness, get books on how to market yourself. Go to a library and learn. The Writer's Market has articles on it. Read them. Practice. Understand value statements. Practice pitches. Have Barb read them. Have total strangers read them. Redo them. Make them sound like the backs of romance novels.

DO IT. It's not just going to come to you. You've been doing it this long and it hasn't, right? Or do I have to be Miss Bitch and Auntie Obvious? I really hate sounding like this, but you know I want to see you succeed. ::cheers::

wildrider

Mar. 20th, 2009 01:35 am (UTC)

No, I meant Chris Moore, not Brown. Not sure why I said Brown. His vampire books are all over the front of the book store.

Mar. 21st, 2009 03:24 am (UTC)

Are you talking about this guy: http://www.chrismoore.com/

wildrider

Mar. 21st, 2009 03:47 am (UTC)

That's the one. I read one of his books. It was cute. *shrug*

nutmeg3

Mar. 19th, 2009 04:03 am (UTC)

I am sooooo with you on the in/ensure thing. Gaaaaah!

wildrider

Mar. 19th, 2009 04:28 am (UTC)

It was in a Steven Brust book, too. It got past the Tor Fantasy editors... into the paperback edition. URG.

ljs

Mar. 19th, 2009 10:09 am (UTC)

[hugs for it all]

wildrider

Mar. 19th, 2009 11:27 pm (UTC)

{hugs back}

hazel75

Mar. 19th, 2009 12:51 pm (UTC)

Evolving should not mean that correct grammar and word usage are no longer important, though. I've gotten to where I practically cheer when I read a book and the author uses who/whom correctly, especially in dialogue. Elizabeth Peters is one of the only authors who gets this cheer.

My mom was reading some Philippa Gregory book for her book club, and said she didn't finish because it had too many grammatical errors for her to be able to take the plot seriously...I have to wonder who edits books these days.

And sorry about your difficulties finding an audience for your writing :(

wildrider

Mar. 19th, 2009 11:30 pm (UTC)

That is true. I can't remember what I was reading the other day where someone used "whom" when it should have been "who." My hair stands on end. As I said to

nutmeg3 above, this use of "insure" when it should be "ensure" is littered throughout Steven Brust's "Viscount of Adrilankha" series, so this is Tor Books -- a pretty MAJOR publishing company!

Mmmm, thinking about it, I don't think Tor's turned me down yet...